Question 18: Is it possible to never die at all?
These are the verses Evans presented to make his claim.
In the 'no' category, we have
Romans 5:12and in the 'yes' category, we have
John 8:51.Note: If I find verses to be repetitive or unnecessary, I may decide not
My standard prefacing comments:
On the No side:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;*
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:.
-- Romans 5:12
On the Yes side:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he*
shall never see death.
-- John 8:51
Mr. Evans has some trouble here with the subtlety of these verses.
Physical death, as a curse of the Fall, has indeed passed to all the
descendants of Adam. It's like a legal sentence. But actual physical
death has not come to all and in the future will not go to all. God said,
[I] will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shewThere were two in the Old Testament days that I know of that did not
mercy on whom I will shew mercy. [Exodus 33:19]
Let's begin with this verse:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.This short sentence does not give details, but I would say that Enoch
-- Genesis 5:24
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inheritSo, Paul used the word "sleep" as a metaphor for death. And,
the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall
be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this
corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put
on immortality. -- 1 Corinthians 15:50-53
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that weNow, for Elijah:
which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall
not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself
shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall
be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the
Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
-- 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smoteWay to go, Elijah! He got an express ride to heaven and cut through
the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they
two went over on dry ground. 9 And it came to pass, when they
were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall
do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said,
I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. 10 And
he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see
me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not,
it shall not be so. 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on,
and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and
horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up
by a whirlwind into heaven. -- 2 Kings 2:8-12
Ok, so what did Jesus mean when he said, "he shall never see death."
In Christendom there is both physical death and spiritual death. Quoting
again from the Book of John:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, andThis refers to a spiritual conversion by which someone enters the
believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall
not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
-- John 5:24
Paul, like Jesus before him, used the word "dead" as a metaphor:
But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she livethJesus used the word "sleep" as a metaphor. He had entered into the
-- 1 Timothy 5:6
52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not;To most people, the words of Jesus here are strange. Why did He
she is not dead, but sleepeth. 53 And they laughed him to
scorn, knowing that she was dead. 54 And he put them all out,
and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and
he commanded to give her meat.
-- Luke 8:52-55
But I have a much simpler explanation that happens to fit in with
Jesus's usual preaching. It's my personal interpretation, so you
can take it with a grain of salt. Jesus was always and everywhere
taking advantage of randomly presented opportunities to deliver what
we call today a "teachable moment." Okay, so the term "sleep" is a
common metaphor for a temporary separation of the spirit from
the body, until they will be rejoined in resurrection. Jesus spoke
of the resurrection:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in theSo, that's the stakes: heaven or hell. But people don't like to think
which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good,
unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done
evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
-- John 5:28-29
So, to sum up: All of humanity is under the legal penalty of death,
but not all people will actually taste death. Some avoided it in the
past as it pleased God to have it that way. In the future, when Jesus
returns with the trump of the archangel, many will avoid death by
being raptured.
One last comment: I warn you to be careful when analyzing the
words of Jesus because He often used words with a double meaning.
To make a point, He would often speak in hyperboles. Lastly, He
often spoke in what we could call 'crazy talk' (eat my flesh, drink
my blood [John 6:54-56]) to encourage those of His followers -- who
were not really His disciples, but just tagged along with Jesus's true
disciples out of curiosity -- to leave Him.
Look, I'm not a Christian apologist nor a Bible expert, but I don't
have to be an expert in the Bible to recognize a Bible novice. So
I warn you criticizers of the Bible, especially you criticizers of Jesus
in the Gospels, if you don't understand that Jesus intensionally used
His words with double meanings, then you will not get His subtlety
and you will reveal yourself as a biblical rank amateur.
But you naysayers show your ignorance of the Old Testament as well.
When attempting to find inconsistencies in the Bible, you can't just
treat the Bible as a justaposition of so many thousands of random
verses stuck together and then start comparing them, giving no
importance to the context of the book, chapter, or adjoining verses
of that verse. So, for example, when trying to claim that some
verse uttered by Job is inconsistent with some other verse in a
different book, you can't just ignore that Job was just a man, going
through torment on earth, and the worst of his torment was because
he didn't know why. Whatever spiritual statements Job uttered in that
state of mind may or may not be spiritually reliable.
If you criticizers don't grasp God's 'Big Plan of Redemption', then
you will likely misinterpret events in the Bible. Example:
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh,So, when we read about a theophany wrestling with Jacob in the
when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem,
worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know
what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
-- John 4:21-22
Question: Why didn't God have a slew of angels blowing horns for
Jacob's princehood 'ceremony' and roll out the red carpet for him?
Question 19: When was Jesus born?
For the time being, I will leave this question for the apologists to deal with.
Question 20: Who was Christ's paternal grandfather?
For the time being, I will leave this question for the apologists to deal with.
Question 21: Could Christians carry staffs?
Remember this: The righteous are mindful of the poor and help them; the wicked do not! (Proverbs 29:7)
You either get control of your lusts and feelings of entitlements or they will get control of you. -- Ilfinor